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Charles Manson: When I Get to the Bottom
The late ’69 Manson Family murders destroyed the groundwork of the hippies and the mystics and the rock ‘n’ rollers alike. After the blood was spilled all over LA mansions, driveways, and walls there was no turning back. Though Manson intended for these killings to strike fear into the heart of the establishment or incite a race war (which his family would ride out safe somewhere in the desert, in the yet undiscovered Bottomless Pit of Revelations), the more lasting and all too real effect of his actions was convincing a lot of free love/intellectual types to cut their hair and abandon whole ideas or lifestyles over the harassment they encountered from the collective horror the ensuing images inspired. Splashed across TV sets and front pages was the crazy-eyed, long-haired, murderous Manson and his satanic femme fatales who wielded butcher knives and could threaten the American way of life with just one look. Human blood scrawled on walls with Beatles lyrics! Pregnant and beautiful blonde actress Sharon Tate with her womb half cut out! The peacenik kids were now cast as would-be murderers as a new conformity set in. Free love was no longer safe. It should actually be no surprise that so many hippies became accountants.
Manson used the White Album as an oracle. He felt the songs were written for him as a map of sorts. He was to be the fifth Beatle and change the world before the revolution went down. The prosecution in the Manson trial used his Beatles obsession as the backbone on which they built their entire case. So it’s more than a little surprising to read John Lennon’s level-headed, almost empathetic reaction to Manson in a 1970 Rolling Stone interview:
Rolling Stone: What did you think of Manson and that thing?
Lennon: I don’t know what I thought when it happened, I just think a lot of the things he says are true, that he is a child of the state, made by us, and he took their children in when nobody else would, is what he did. Of course he’s cracked, alright.
Rolling Stone: What about “Helter Skelter”?
Lennon: Well, he’s balmy, he’s like any other Beatle kind of fan who read mysticism into it. I mean we used to have a laugh putting this, that, or the other in, in a lighthearted way. Some intellectual would read us, some symbolic youth generation wants it, but we also took seriously some parts of the role… but, I don’t know, what’s “Helter Skelter” got to do with knifing somebody? I’ve never listened to the words properly; it was just a noise…
There were mixed feelings about Manson in that singular era of hippiedom. It was, surprisingly, not so black and white at first. Some counterculture press groups adopted him as a mascot of sorts. They claimed that even by the prosecution’s standards he had murdered no one and therefore the whole thing was unjust. ‘Conspiracy,’ they shouted. Vincent Bugliosi, the prosecuting attorney, had been terrified by Manson’s perfectly legal request to represent himself. He even believed Manson stopped his wristwatch using only his mind! The attorney and Manson would have private discussions where Manson would flex his intelligence, and Bugliosi admits in his book Helter Skelter that he was convinced if Manson was able to represent himself he would have been acquitted, because frankly the evidence was weak and Manson was an incredibly charismatic speaker with a great knowledge of the law based on spending the vast majority of his life in the prison system.
But let’s go back before the shock of those grisly murders. Let’s place Charles Manson in a different place, not the scene of the crime (which even the prosecution had a hell of a time doing). There he is hanging out with his family in a creek bed, it’s night and the moon is out so he’s playing his songs and dropping acid, naked. He is lecturing on God and consciousness with his guitar at hand, playing with language while further pulling back the veil—shouting out that he was Christ and that in the end they would all sell him out. It is said that Manson could be anyone he wanted to be at any moment, especially under acid’s spell. His girls told Bugliosi that he would breathe life into dead birds and lay in the desert with coyotes. Manson identified with animals more than with people because he always knew where he was at with an animal. Out there in the desert he devoured Nietzsche (another animal lover and race-war paranoid) and the book of Revelations, and played guitar, writing his songs in the moment as his family eagerly gathered around to learn them.
The Manson murders took away all the innocence of the 1960s, but maybe those years weren’t so innocent anyway. But it was also a free time (right?) when the next generation could finally be who they were and step away from some of the conformity of the 1950s. Charles Manson, the soon to be infamous murderer, was then a struggling songwriter and an ex-con with his very own following. He traveled across America in a bus. He was a Haight-Ashbury guru. He’d been all over in his search for good times. Eventually his family landed in LA. There he’d bumped heads with the Laurel Canyon elite—his girls had seduced Beach Boy Dennis Wilson who then produced a demo for Manson at Brian Wilson’s home studio. (Dennis told Bugliosi that these tapes were destroyed, but much like the Smile projects’ supposed burning this was a lie… more on that in a bit).
Dennis Wilson called Manson his Wizard and the two became very close, swapping girls, songs, and religious ideas. Wilson, meanwhile, championed Manson to the elite music establishment by opening all sorts of doors for him, dropping him off, guitar in hand, at the hippest gatherings and playing his demos to whoever would listen. He even used Manson’s ideology in interviews. Suddenly the surfing, All-American, beefcake Beach Boy was talking about fear being another kind of awareness (which Manson himself had apparently cribbed from other mystical types).
45 Comments
Great article. I mean, Manson is creepy as fuck but it is interesting to read about his times with Dennis Wilson. Crazy.
good article
The Lie album was not recorded at Brian Wilson’s house, nor was Manson anywhere near The Beach Boys during the Smile era – from June 1966 to March 1967 he was in prison. Dennis first met him fall 1968.
I really don’t know what to make of this article, nor I suspect will most people who are knowledgable about the Manson clan and the murders they committed. There seems to be a genuine attempt to reinvent history here.John Lennon’s initial quote “he is a product of the state..” is patently wrong, and reflects that Beatles’s own detachment from the ordinary lives around him.(Manson is in fact, delusionally paranoid and bi-polar, although that diagnosis did not exist at the time; he also had along criminal record, something that was overlooked by all the hipsters and hangers-on on the scene at the time. He is man who clearly deserves the death penalty, and was saved by legal technicalities, oh, if only California voters had moved to reinstate the death penalty at that time, Manson would make the short list for sure. Manson’s music, was not, is not, very good. Period. That is why nothing came of it back in ‘68 and ‘69. Dennis Wilson’s friendship with the Manson clan is hardly any endorsement of quality, given that fact that he lived a drug and alcohol-addled life himself at the time. More recent cover versions do not carry a seal of approval, it should be noted, and merely represent the always-popular trend towards dwelling on the notorious and attention-gettiong qualities of criminality.
There had been for some time now, a small “industry” of ppl who want to make a buck on Manson, mostly tabloid types and the idly curious care about the man.Manson did us a favor, however by exposing the naked underbelly of the counter-culture and hip movement of the day, by violently acting out his own fanatasies against “Hollywood beautiful people” and ordinary people alike in the name of a private, fantastical race war (Helter Skelter)only a deranged mind coukld conjure up. Is the writer aware of how many ppl claim to have “escaped’ death by NOT being at the house where Sharon tate et al were murdfered that night. The list , by Holloywwod standards, was logn and points to the bullshit egos of the time ( Hey man, I was gonna hang out there that night, too…) Yeah right, and if I had a nickel for every baby boomer who claimed to be at either Woodstock or Altamont, I would be richer than Bill Gates!The beiggest wrong perpetrated by this article is that someone may come waay with the notion that Manson offered any legitimate insight into the truth of his own situation. His values were those of pathos and death, and that is what he delivered in spades, to his victims.
One more thing…”it is natural and organic (is this a Dannon yogurt commercial?)…free and flowing. It is everything the 60’s supposedly embodied…” What a load of hooey! If this stands as a honest “review” than the writer has no further credibility here.
Mansion actually has a new album out “One Mind”. It’s under the Creative Commons,so it is free to share and download. It’s pretty out there.
Link:
http://limewire.org/mblog/manson2
According to Neil Young’s biography, Shakey, Neil encountered Manson in Topanga Canyon, NOT Laurel Canyon. Apparently Young’s producer, David Briggs, who was a bit insane himself, was the only one who didn’t fear Charlie, and once chased him out of Topanga!
Charlie don’t surf!
“”he is a product of the state..” is patently wrong,”
Javamaster seems to be spinning neo-con police state theories here. The truth is by 1968, Manson had spent the majority of his life in prison. He did a long stint if Federal jail for car theft across state lines which made it a federal crime. To say that someone spent the majority of their life in prison, but arent a product of that system (he killed AFTER being in prison, not before) is just an apology for the horrendous state of the criminal justice system.
Also notice that neo-con Javaman goes on a longwinded right wing rant against the 60’s and blah blah blah…..what an asshat.
‘He etas nails.’
Sounds like an asshat to me!
A much better book about the Manson family is “The Family” written by Ed Saunders. As a member of the Fugs, he brings a real sense of authenticity to his descriptions of the 60s counterculture in LA.
Personally, I think David Koresh was a much better singer-songwriter than Manson.
That’s right, Truthsayer, start calling names when yiou can’t have it your way..just like the unreconstructed hippie-commie-Lefty-druggie-we know you to be. You don’t know me very well, and that’s probably a good thing. I eta nails and spit rust, and I can do the same for you. Me, a “neo-con”? That;s a bigger insult than “ass’hat” where did you learn that one, in 3rd grade? Ah, you must be the product of the public school system? Say what? you went to a private school? Oh then you mightbe one of them counter-culture elitist types? Hey the Sixties weren’t all THAT, man, admit it. I’m just telling it like it is, brother…and by the way “The Family” by Ed Saunders is a very good examination of the pathetic Manson clan. You can read, can’t you Truthsayer?
hey AGD,
sup?
you’re right about the prison timeline…i didn’t mean “heady smile times” literally as the smile content was slowly pissed out over time and the biggest hunk of actual ‘67 session stuff was released on the 20/20 record…
i can’t prove that the lie sessions are the ones done at brian’s house but the quality is very lo fi (kinda like the smiley smile album recorded in brian’s pool) and lots of people claim this is true…
anyway, i could be wrong!
there’s a new manson album out now done at a different studio, so who knows what will eventually surface…maybe brian wilson singing harmony on that shit with dennis wilson on bongos?
“Neo-con police state theories…” that’s rich.I will be happy to throw the switch on the banality of evil that Chalie Manson, Squeaky Fromme, etc., represent..bring back the death penalty to California!(Note to budding anthrpologists and lie-detector technicians: Baby boomers are the biggest bullshitters on the planet (George W. Bush Clinton come to mind!) I thought that was a nice touch to throw in about the Woodstock thing…don’t worry Truthsayer, we got nothing but love for you here!
That lie tape, was actually recorded by Phil Kaufman as well, who was a friend Manson met in prison, and Phil kaufman went out to be Gram parson’s road manager, and also a tour manager for the rolling stones. Also, the song the author of this article talks about ” Look at your game girl, ” was written by Manson, but for that lie session, it was sung by Manson follower Steve Groogin and NOT Manson. This was confirmed to me by someone I know that was in the family,and also at the recording session, and also, I have a filmed interview with Manson from the mid 80’s when the lie album first came out on a mass level, and he also confirms that Steve G was the guying singing, but it’s Manson’s song, just not him singing. Manson does the rest of the vocals on the session, also, check out the Manson Family Jam cd, which is a 2 cd set, that is the family singing and playing without Manson, that stuff is way better
Makes me think of Hitler What might have been different if Hitler’s painting career had made him successful, instead of politics? And what if Bush had been a successful businessman instead of a successful warmonger? What if all the mad artists had not become artists? Would we be writing about them as murderers?
Obviously it’s not an either/or situation, and I’m not trying to excuse Manson’s actions, but it’s interesting to think about. People are never all good or all bad. That’s a media construct meant to make us feel better.
For my eyes (viewed only in hindsite) Manson seems a very American man- raised as he was by the justice system of California. He could dominate the people around him beause they were lost kids looking for a Daddy. Daddy America had been found to have feet of clay and rather than be grownup and think for themselves people looked for new Daddys. Manson was clever and adaptable and used the skills he learned on the inside on the middleclass kiddies around him. On the inside the other cons would tell him to get lost(polite vesion) the kids were easy to manipulate. Prison does not teach restraint- he ate up the little bit of power he had over them like a dog gorging itself from trashcan- he never learned when to stop.The Jonestown massacre, Moses David and his child abuse church and many smaller tragedies happened because people were looking for new authority. as a ps please re-examine Nietzsche- not race hater and he would despise the Manson thing with great passion- lots wrong with Nietzsche but not what you are acusing him of!
I think AGD is correct with his timeline outlined in his post several entries below. A good book to read on this part of the story is “Heros and Villians: The True Story of the Beach Boys.” One of the roots of Dennis Wilson’s many problems seems to be that he was a sex addict, which really destroyed his relationships. It was also the primary reason he met Manson in the first place — he was attracted to the Manson family girls.
I would urge people to check out Dennis Wilson’s wonderful Pacific Ocean Blue record that he released in 1977.
Wikipedia has an excellent entry on Dennis and addresses some of this Manson stuff, too.
I tend to think the Manson/Beach Boys connection is a bit overplayed and the cops never thought Dennis was involved with Manson enough to have him testify at the Tate trial.
Yeah Pacific Ocean Blue has now been reissued on CD with lots of extra tracks, including Dennis’s never-released follow-up album, Bambu. See 4-star review in this month’s MOJO (July issue).
One of my favorite stories from Bugliosi’s book is about the family taking Dennis’s Rolls Royce to go dumpster diving behind the Safeway!
Now that’s class!
No, Javamaster you arent a neo-con, “Manson did us a favor” “woodstock ” “Baby boomers are the biggest bullshitters” “unreconstructed hippie-commie-Lefty-druggie” “you must be the product of the public school system” ” counter-culture elitist types” “Hey the Sixties weren’t all THAT”
Still care to argue that ASSHAT, errr Javamaster isnt a neo-con.
Go back to your Oxycontin Rush!
Most of the Beach Boys/Dennis Wilson related information in this article I found to be inaccurate or untrue. As has been stated in prior posts, Manson was nowhere near the BB’s during the SMiLE era. They met in mid-1968. How they met is still uncertain. There is the common story that Dennis picked up 2 family members, Ella Jo Bailey and Katie Krenwinkel, took them to his place and had an orgie. He left them there to rest, came back that evening, and Manson was there. A more likely story is that they met buying drugs at Gary Hinman’s house. Also, Manson never said that Dennis could use the songs for free as long as he didn’t change the words. He said that he could use the songs if they would help him get an album produced and released. That is why Manson was at Brian’s home. They weren’t there for long, because Marilyn Wilson was terrified of them and wanted them to leave. Past info seems to confirm that you are right in that Brian didn’t come down that night. Whether or not he was too afraid of Manson is debatable. He was starting to fall into mental issues of his own at this time. This all illustrates that Manson used his cunning ways to solicit Dennis and his connections. However, Dennis was no Family clone. He bought into a lot of what Manson was saying at the time, but merely the philosophy of it. Leading to the story about the bullet. The most believable story is from Van Dyke Parks. Here is what he said about the scenario:
“One day, Charles Manson brought a bullet out and showed it to Dennis, who asked, ‘What’s this?’ And Manson replied, ‘It’s a bullet. Every time you look at it, I want you to think how nice it is your kids are still safe.’ Well, Dennis grabbed Manson by the head and threw him to the ground and began pummelling him until Charlie said, “ouch!’ He beat the living shit out of him. “How dare you!’ was Dennis’ reaction. Charlie Manson was weeping openly in front of a lot of hip people. Dennis Wilson wasn’t afraid of anybody!”
This is not a first-hand account, but what I know if Dennis, it seems the most realistic.
Unrelated to the Beach Boys, and the chief mistake I find in this article, is referring to Manson as a murderer. He was a consoler of the lonely, downtrodden, and misguided, and he preyed on these characteristics. He effectively manipulated them. However, to murder is a physical act. Do I think Manson is where he belongs…yes. But the misrepresentation of who and what he is has been stretched way out of proportion. He is a product of a media that distorts facts, and a government that was looking for a way to put an end to the counterculture (failed, ultimately.) As crazy as he may be, Manson’s self assessment is the most accurate. He is a hobo, a petty thief, a car thief, and yes, a mirror.
Dennis Wilson?
Don’t you mean Brian Wilson?
Java Master I am glad people use the freedom of speech they are guaranteed. Right or wrong it is a right thatI am glad exists. I find the comments more interesting than hios music or even the article. Either way Manson made history and changed a generation.
Author does not mention two important points. Terry Melcher, producer of the Byrds, originally was interested in Manson’s music but later changed his mind. He lived in the Cielo house , but had moved out. It was then rented to Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate. Also, Manson had been to Phil Kaufman friends’ house, and supposedly sent the crew to kill them. They were not home, so they went next door to the LaBiancas. This is written about in detail in Phil Kaufman’s excellent autobiography Road Mangler Deluxe.
Aaahhh….oh excuse me, I was just getting off on my oxycontin rush, courtesy of my good friend, Truthsayer, who wouldn’t know the truth if it bit him on his ass*hat. (I couldn’t find this one on dictionary.com).
SquirrelNutz made an interesting comment and I wish s/he could elaborate for us, that is that “Manson made history and changed a generation.” I am not sure what SquirrelNutz means by that. Arguably, lots of people do things that makes some sort of “history” but Manson was (is) a rather ordinary sort of pathetic individual. He represents the utter banality of evil. He is also plain crazy (as in bi-polar, manic depressive, just plain psycho kind of crazy that will get you an insanity defense in a California courtroom. In that respect, he is a quite ordinary criminal, with criminally (insane) intent and deeds to his credit.He plotted to kill a number of people–mostly acquaintencaes of his, altho those minor celebrities got in the way of his plans, and died in their place instead–including “starlet” Sharon Tate (whose biggest talent at that point seems to having been photogaphed in bikinis and being a quite the Hollywiood party girl, her romance to the future child molester Polanski notwithstanding) and hair stylist/businessman extraordinaire Jay Sebring (who was also a known drug dealer and sometime informant for the LAPD). Well, every death is a tragedy, right?.. regardless of the victim’s own character, and none of Manson’s victims deserved to die their horrible deaths, regardless of how they were chosen. I don’t think the Manson clan events changed a generation’s history, altho they did give many pause about taking greater care in their social connections and personal security at the time.
And yes, the criminal justice system is not a nice place to be, but Manson must ultimately be held culpable for his actions. Manson’s fantasticly morbid notions of Helter Skelter was no mere media construct. Neither was his ability to insinuate himself into other people’s lives with cunning and skill.
Thanks to “nixhex” for timely corrections to the historical record here.
The Manson money-making machine (making $ for someone other than Charlie, that is) apparently rolls onward….
Interesting: hios music is an interesting new genre. Makes me want to etas nails!
Me smell rat.
I’m an asshat.
The article seems to be factually correct except for one glaring inaccuracy in the opening paragraph. For the record, Sharon Tate’s womb WAS NOT “half cut out”. This is precisely the kind of sensational, irresponsible reporting that resulted in so many horrendous things being said about Sharon Tate after her death. The press said the murders were “ritualistic” and that the victims and “hoods” over there heads. They also said that the murders were drug related and that Sharon and her baby had been mutilated. All of these reports are false, wrong, bullshit! Sharon died of 16 stab wounds to the back and chest. The baby died because she died. Period. Why is it that, almost 30 years later, the members of the press STILL can’t get it right? All they do is perpetuate the disgusting notion that, somehow, this beautiful, life loving woman got what she deserved! Sharon, like the other innocent victims, was in the wrong house at the wrong time. Because of their association with Terry Melcher, Manson and the Family knew the layout of the Cielo house- that’s why it was chosen.The murders were not drug related or ritualistic and there was no “black magic” being practiced in the home.All those people, including Sharon and her baby, died for absolutely no reason. They were randomly selected and mercilessly butchered on the orders of a 5′2 inch self proclaimed guru who started to believe his own sick rhetoric. You kind of have to ask yourself though…what kind of society bred all those young men and women that made up the Family? How could they all be so easily brain washed by this man? Did they have no sense of self or self worth? To this day, it blows my mind how this group of people could have followed Manson’s orders from Spahn Ranch to Cielo Drive without a backward glance. Manson was obviously a charismatic and brilliant figure, but come on! They didn’t know right from wrong? You can blame it on the generation gap or the times, but I’ve never thought it was that simple…
uh, lisa… that’s the point of that sentence – talking about the sensationalism of the media saying such things that had people all sorts of riled up. try reading it again, you’ll see…
Hey Eleanor- Thanks. You’re right, actually. I see your point. Still I think a lot of people that read it might get the wrong image in their heads….SELF CORRECTION: It was almost 40 years ago, not 30! Duh…hey what can I say? I’m blonde…
Whoever wrote this is full of it.Bugliosi said his watch stopped coincidently, but not of Manson. He was never scared of Manson in anyway, in fact just the opposite. They would have staring sessions and Manson’s hands would begin to shake and he would look away. Bugliosi in chambers even threatened to kick Manson’s ass if Manson ever made a remote threat on his life again. He never thought Manson would win by representing himself. Asshole read Helter Skelter by Bugliosi before you continue to make an ass out of yourself. And by the way, Bugliosi is now trying to get George Bush prosecuted for murder. I highly doubt he was ever afraid of Manson. Read Bugliosi’s new book, The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder. Brilliant book. Bugliosi is an ass kicking hero. Bush watch out, if Bugliosi catches up to you, you are going six feet under!!!
Sorry Brian, but Josie’s absolutely correct…everything she said is written in Helter Skelter. And I love Vince Bugliosi too! He’s got major balls…always has. Can’t wait to read his new book…
hey josie,
that’s just like, your opinion, man
not very professional for a prosecuting attorney to threaten to kick a defendant’s ass…also, if you look into all the “coincidences” surrounding the manson case (as stated in helter skelter) you might start to wonder about “coincidences”…bugliosi wrote a great narrative but we can’t say that his perspective is absolute truth anymore than this article is…
This guy is a living scumbag no one should be interested in anything he did or had to say or sing
I have the 2 disc set of Manson songs called “The Family Jams” on Aoroa.
I have to say,some of it is very good. Some lyrics explain how he became what he is
Ah, the Manosn money-makinhg machine rolls onward, I suppose all of you caught the umpteenth re-run of the Manson clan murder story on Ale) in the last couple of days? I’ve wasted enuff time on this thread.
Has the guy who wrote this ever been to LA? One can easily imagine the enviroment that gave birth to Manson and the Beach Boys. This guy’s not interested in finding out the truth he’s just covering his ass
Anel runs all sort of sordid “true crime” stuff all the time. Last week it was the Manson Family rehash again. At least they still have the Sopranos reruns, those are the best things they broadcast, apparently. Stop blaming “society” for “creating” Charlie Manson, will ya? That is just bleedin’ heart liberal bull….
That’s A nnel not “anel” you toad.
Arts tainment channel, Ay didn’t it come out right in my last post? What’s wrong with your posting program here heh heh
The writer of this article should check his battery, it’s low. Manson was a three time loser and violent career criminal. He dressed up like a hippy as a lure, he wrote songs for 2 minutes because he thought it was an easy score. He’s was, at that point incarcerated almost as long as he’d been alive. He didn’t happen because of peace love, he just happened at the same time, totally by coincidence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBWy2ImaRyA
this guy is a lunitic just watch the way he talks and how is has weird mood switches and how is eyes are hes a weird guy there is something wrong with him of course and im a 14 year old boy and i can tell that.
this guy is a lunitic just watch the way he talks and how is has weird mood switches and how is eyes are hes a weird guy there is something wrong with him of course and im a 14 year old boy and i can tell that.
From what I’ve been reading since the 40th anniversary of the Tate/LaBianca killings (I was 18 years old in Southern CA when it happened) is that Sphann (sp?)Ranch, where Manson and his brood hung out, was a house of disorder, not order and that Manson didn’t have the control and infulence as stated by Vince Bugliosi, who made millions on Helter Skelter. With the Hinnman killing, there were a string of unfortunate events. One of the girls loved Bobby and suggested that they stage a murder so that Bobby wouldn’t be blamed. Manson said, “Why not at Cielo Drive?” The media is making money on the Manson genius that does not exsist. As far as his music, I heard and saw some of his musical “endeavors” on You Tube and wasn’t impressed at all. The world did not “miss out” on a great musical talent. He was a thug trying to get in on the take and failed miserably and killed because he was a sore looser and a spoiled, degenerate brat.