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Celtic Punks: The Pogues vs. Dropkick Murphys
“When I die Dublin will be written in my heart.” – James Joyce
It’s 2008 now, and by all reasonable estimates, Shane MacGowan should be dead.
But Shane MacGowan is not dead, nor is he irrelevant. In fact, the Pogues are enjoying one last hurrah, despite the fact that they haven’t recorded any new material with MacGowan in over 18 years, that there are no immediate plans to return to the studio, that every rock mag this side of the Ukraine has kept a working obit on file for MacGowan for well over a decade.
Despite all of that, the Pogues are still pogue-ing away.
And all the tales of hard living that helped make them who and what they are have inspired others to rise up in their wake, spinning their own tales of blue-collar woe.
All of which comes as no real surprise because, quite frankly, the Pogues and their Celtic blend of Strummer-certified punk are nothing short of genius. The Pogues cast a shadow so dark and far-reaching it’s difficult, if not impossible, for any other band to eclipse it. And their success is as much modern tragedy as it is grand theater. Every stanza’s drenched in nicotine, every chorus bathed in Bushmills, every song more tortured and sincere than the one that came before—MacGowan rasping his way down dark lyrical alleys with bagpipes and banjos and tin-whistles-a-whistling.
How on Earth do you follow that?
Well, if you’re the Dropkick Murphys you replace all the tales of cold Irish living with working-class tales of American ire. You take what was pretty and make it sound gritty. You turn the BPMs up to a hardcore stomp of 156. And you do it all with blatant reverence for the ones that came before.
But should the Dropkick Murphys be mentioned in the same breath as the Pogues?
Well, both bands have songs that make you want to drink and drink and drink and drink and drink and drink and fight. But whereas the Pogues seem to make the most sense around quarter of two on a cold winter’s eve, the Dropkicks’ mission is to shake you and wake you, to carry you through the night.
The Dropkicks dig Woody Guthrie, while the Pogues dig old Pete Seeger.
The Dropkicks represent the pubs of Southie, the solidarity of unions, and the world champion Sox. The Pogues are King’s Cross, the cheap smell of gutters, and “The Fairytale of New York.”
Both bands write with a strong social conscience—MacGowan as the patron saint of the less-than-average-Joe, while the Dropkicks lay claim to the dockworkers and tradesmen, the meager-living factions of Northeastern sprawl.
The Pogues are MacGowan, for better or worse. He’s the ash in their beer and the spit in their shine. The Dropkicks are an ensemble where the whole achieves more than the sum of its parts. Al Barr leans on Ken Casey, and Casey leans on Barr. And just as the Dropkicks thrived when Barr came aboard, the Pogues lost their luster when MacGowan hit the skids.
The Pogues always seem like they’re teetering on the brink, while the Dropkicks remain intensely focused, as if driven by a force that’ll take them straight through their 50s. .jpg "Courtesy of DropkickMurphys.com")
Despite having worked with the Dropkicks in the past, MacGowan has publicly slighted them on more than one occasion, which makes one wonder if (from a native Irish perspective) the Murphys are the genuine article or just an Americanized version of the real deal—like St. Patty’s Day, or McSorley’s, or even Trooper Thorn.
But it doesn’t really matter whether the Dropkicks are from County Derry or the ‘burbs of southern Mass, whether they’re shipping up to Boston or wandering the dark streets of London. They’re helping to preserve and expand a tradition that MacGowan and James Fearnley began almost three decades prior. There’s something admirable about that.
Perhaps one sunny morn when MacGowan’s outlived us all, he’ll show up on some British talk show to ponder once again the state of Celtic punk and the long overdue demise of his liver. And between boasts of a band called Lancaster County Prison, he’ll recall a time in the late ‘90s when he recorded “Good Rats” and “Wild Rover” with some streetwise punks that called themselves the Dropkick Murphys.
Of them he’ll say this: “Those lads… now those lads were as right as rain, yeah.”
It’ll be a hell of a moment. But unfortunately, none of us will be able to hear it, because the whole thing’ll run together, like one long, garbled mess.
And besides, we’ll all be dead already, so what’s the difference anyway, yeah?
Watch: The Pogues [at youtube.com]
Watch: Dropkick Murphys [at youtube.com]
» Previously: Freewheelin’: Bob Dylan vs. Conor Oberst
21 Comments
Bushmill’s? MacGowan no drink Protestant Whiskey. How can you tell ET was Protestant? Because he looked like one.
It is nice to see bands like Dropkick Murphy’s carrying on the tradition of Irish music The Dubliners-The Pogues-???? But, I don’t see much of a comparison. The Dropkick Murphy’s could never write a song like “Body of an American” which embodies-no pun intended-what it is to be both Irish and American-Irish in such a beautiful and moving five minutes.
Hail Shane MacGowan, yeah. The Paddy Rolling Stone.
A+ Effort! I’d like to say it’s your best work yet, but I’d probably be biased. Your comments were very succinct and relevant.
I saw the DKM in September and they were decent. I was drunk. “Barroom Hero” is always a favorite.
There are more to The Pogues than MacGowan. And The Pogues never had a bagpipe.
Foo, You’re half-right. The Pogues used Uileann pipes, which are basically the Irish version of the bagpipes. Same instrument, same sound, different name. Stop splitting hairs. It’s a good article.
And now for something completely different: this is a gritty yet colorful read, laced with powerful images and essences of humanity. As one who wouldn’t know a DKM if it kicked him in the arse, I still must offer my praise and admiration for the author’s skillful ways. It was an enjoyable experience to soak up this information, no matter where my starting point was.
“Protestant whiskey”? – grow up Joe.
The ulieann pipes are nothing like the bagpipes. They are inflated with a bellows under the arm and are much more tuneful. If you doubt it compare any track by the chieftans to any Scottish Piper and you will know what I mean
Looks and sounds like the Murphys have more in common with Oi! bands like the Business than an amped-up ceilidh band like the Pogues.
There’s nothing any less authentic about a Boston-Irish band than there is a London-Irish band, but Jaysus, boy, read a book if you’re gonna claim to be the heir of MacGowan’s legacy; those lyrics are bleedin’ embarrassing.
dropkick murphy’s,the pouges?why hasn’t anyone mentioned flogging molly
it took some boys in los angeles to do gaelic punk
After Shane left, I pined for the Pogues for 15 yrs. Then my brother turned me on to Flogging Molly, and I haven’t looked back since. I dig DM also, but please someone give FM some ink, and some cred. Bob, please treat yourself to a FM show, and write another piece.
Uileann Pipes, bagpipes, whatever. Name me three songs that The Pogues used them on.
The standard instrumentation lineup of The Pogues were/are Mandolin ki (Terry Woods), Guitar (Philip Chevron), Accordian (James Fearnley), Drums (Andrew Rankin), Whistle (Spider Stacey), Bass (Cait O’Riordan in the beginning, Darryl Hunt later on), and Banjo (Jem Finer). For occasional tracks they used different instruments (hurdy-gurdy, uileann pipes, harmonica, etc), but this was their standard lineup.
Yeaaah, I’m sorry but I have to agree with everyone else – Flogging Molly is a much better comparison to The Pogues, at least their music sounds genuine. I don’t think Dropkick really have the same kind of feeling as The Pogues, whereas I think Flogging Molly has their same spirit, but still stand on their own.
Foo, Here’s the way Webster defines Uileann pipes: “An Irish bagpipe with air supplied by a bellows held under and worked by the elbow.” So your argument in this thread sounds like this: “There was no bagpipe. OK, there was a bagpipe, but it wasn’t a Scottish bagpipe. OK, but they didn’t use it that much, so here’s a breakdown of what instrument every member of the band played.” You’re focusing on one phrase the author uses simply for alliteration sake (go back and look), and it’s not even technically incorrect. You seem to have a half decent argument in that the article implies MacGowan is the focal point of the Pogues, and you disagree with that. That’s worth discussing. Can we talk about that, instead of discussing the author’s choice of phrase? Maybe even discuss the Flogging Molly argument. There’s something to that.
Nice read. Entertaining. A little ballsy of you too, Flogging Molly fans can get defensive. I am one myself, but I’m still going to say that your comparisons have some weight behind them. Nice job.
Oh, and three well-known Pogues songs with the pipes:
The Body of an American
Dirty Old Town
Four O’Clock in the Morning
The Dropkick Murphy’s can’t hold a match to the Pogues or Flogging Molly even. Flogging Molly all the way.
Well all bands have their finer points, I like so many others feel that Flogging Molly are definitely a better comparison, and by far the most superior band of the three musically and lyrically, but then again each band has their own focus whether it be a distinctly Irish-American working background, or the distinct expatriate, homesick woe and angst of Flogging Molly…to each band his own distinct method of songwriting….
Flogging Molly! Dave King is the greatest songwriter of all time!
There is no way either band can even stand close to Flogging Molly…
You people need to get a life. Try playing an instrument in stead of nit-picking at the people who do.
Why can’t we like all three?
All are similar although the Pogues think about their lyrics. However what is certain is that Shane MacvGowan is a genius and if any of the three bands could get him to write or sing then they would be the best by far.